Desperate Champs, desperate measures.
May 16, 2008 by Chrisangelo
(Picture credits: http://go2page3.blogspot.com/2008/05/ingredients-find-opposing-player-not.html)
After watching a disastrous third quarter both from the Hornets and the calls from the refs in the game earlier, I had to turn off the television to get ready for a 4 hour part time job that could give me fits as I try to survive my summer. So what’s the point of watching? The Spurs were up by a very comfortable margin and knowing what kind of team the Spurs are, they are definitely not going to give up an 16 point lead when their backs are against the wall. Apparently, for me, there will be no significant thing that will happen in the fourth quarter, I’m only going to get pissed off by the flops and the calls so why waste my time watching it?
Too bad, I was wrong. The moment I got home, my 13 year old brother told me about the cheap shot Robert Horry gave to David West in the opening minutes of the fourth quarter. The moment I logged in the net, the whole internet basketball community was all over it.
On the blue corner, the Hornets fans.. saying that Robert Horry’s shot was intentional, was uncalled for and was meant to take out West in the seventh and final game in the series. On the red corner, the Spurs fans.. saying it was a good old playoff foul, saying David bumped right into Horry and Horry didn’t do anything intentional to David West.
Well, by that time, there was no video available in the internet so I had to wait for Basketball TV’s re-run of the Spurs - Hornets game, I watched it with my uncle who also knows his stuff when it comes to Basketball. And by the time the Robert Horry incident was done, we both agreed that the foul was indeed intentional and was meant to take out David West off of his game.
Let this video be the basis while I answer every bit of excuse the Spurs fans throws in the net.
1) “The foul wasn’t intentional “
There’s the video and all you have to do is watch it. Here’s the scenario, as soon Ginobili goes base, David West cuts him over to block his way Horry on the other hand seeing West doubled on Manu, tried to give a blind pick. Manu tries to throw a lob pass to Thomas who had good position on the inside while West jumped over to try and intercept the pass.. a few seconds later West is lying in pain. At first look, it seems like nothing happened.. in the replay you’ll see a few things.
First up, knowing a veteran like Robert Horry, he obviously knows how to set good screens.. especially if the defender doesn’t know a screen is coming.. all you have to do is stand in there and wait for him to come at you. That’s why it’s called a blind pick. What bothers me is the fact that Horry was indeed called for a foul, which means something illegal happened in there that forced the referees to blow the whistle. Here’s the question, and I think every reader who knows how to play basketball can answer this. If you’re setting a blind pick and the defender doesn’t know that a pick is being set.. WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU MOVE? I mean, I can understand other players who moves and gets called for a foul when they’re setting an on-ball screen to try and give space to the offensive player but for you to lean forward when you know the defender is coming right at you.. well that’s not right, there’s something fishy in there. And knowing a guy, a veteran, like Robert Horry he knows that, he knows that there’s no need for him to lean forward and move to give space to Manu.. it’s obvious, David West is going in his direction and I know that he knows that he’s going to get called for a foul if he moves and West bumps into him. Now the question is, why on earth did he lean forward?
2) “It’s a good ol’ hard Playoff foul”
I’m sick of this excuse. Really. I have no problems with hard fouls and stuff but you have to realize that there’s a real thin line between fouling to stop a guy from scoring thus breaking his rhythm and fouling to hurt the guy and take him out of the game. One example of the former is the first round of this year’s Playoffs.. the series between Cleveland and Washington. LeBron gets tagged hard everytime he gets into the rim.. but I can understand that, the Wizards doesn’t want to give easy dunks and layups on a guy who thrives on energy and momentum like LeBron James. That’s an example of a good Playoff foul.
What makes me sick is all of these overprotective Spurs fans who were saying that it was a “GOOD” Playoff foul. David West isn’t even in a position for scoring. David West isn’t even in a position for passing. The Hornets doesn’t even have the ball possession so why on earth would Robert Horry give David West a good ol’ “Playoff foul”? Do you get what I’m saying? It’s downright pointless. Now hear me out.. Robert Horry knows David West’s back is hurting, I know David West’s back is hurting heck everybody knows David West’s back is hurting. Now here’s another question, if Robert’s intention was to give David West a good ol’ “Playoff foul” then why would he hit David on a body part where in he knows that’s injured? Right, because his intentions is not to take David West OUT OF HIS GAME, his intention (Read Number 1) is to take David West OUT OF THE GAME.
3) “David West was crashing right into Robert Horry”
Take a look at the video. Take a look at it closely, especially in the replay. Yes, he was indeed going into Horry’s direction.. but, if you would also look at that video again, you would see Robert Horry, leaning forward, thus meeting David West midway causing a collision thus damaging West’s back. Check out the video again to spare me from explaining.
Now, I know I’m not the only one who’s whining about the situation, every fan who saw that game would know that Horry did intentionally.. unless of course you are a Spurs fan. Here are some bloggers’ take on Cheap Shot Rob’s clutch shot on David West.
Basketbawful: Look, I’ve played a lot of basketball over the years, both organized and not-so-organized. Stuff like that doesn’t happen by accident. It just doesn’t. And if you think otherwise, then you’re fooling yourself. Horry measured West and gave him a really hard — and clearly illegal, since it resulted in an offensive foul — shot into a part of West’s body that was known to be injured. Did Horry intend to take West out of the game, or even incapacitate him for Game 7? Probably not. But that barely makes the act any less senseless. And whether he meant for it to happen or not, there’s a pretty good likelihood that West will be far from 100 percent for Game 7. Which is a pretty good tradeoff for a simple offensive foul, isn’t it?
And for those of you who are inevitably going to defend Mr. Cheap Shot, go ahead and answer this question in your defense: How would you react if you were playing pickup basketball and somebody purposely took a shot at your injured back/knee/ankle/whatever? Would you laugh it off as just a good, hard basketball play? Or would you want to strangle the guy?
Evil Ted: “After watching the Horry incident in regular and slow motion, I told Basketbawful that it looked mild, and that West shouldn’t be playing professional basketball if his back can’t sustain a hit like that. Of course, with each passing moment, I had to add preface after preface to my opinion. First, with West’s pre-existing back condition, it makes the hit far more nefarious — a true ‘Sweep the leg’ Cobra Kai moment. Second, if the hit had ever been issued to a bad-back-plagued Larry Bird and he went down, I would want blood and lots of it. Third, the hit illustrates the true subtle genius of the Spurs.
“They play basketball nowadays about as ‘dirty’ as any team in the league, but no casual basketball observer (that includes NBA officials, whom I now consider ‘casual basketball observers,’ by the way) could ever quite put a finger on what the Spurs are doing. From Ginobli flopping to the Duncan face to the Parker Oscar nominations to the Bowen foot defense to the Horry picks…every questionable thing the Spurs do must be analyzed in slow motion from ten different angles to determine whether there was intent or chicanery on a given play. No other team in the league has come close to perfecting this subtlety. It is very clear most of the time when other teams in the league are playing dirty — they know nothing but shoving, clotheslining, punching, elbowing, kicking, etc. Many of us may despise the Spurs, but give them this: They have 100% perfected playing “their style” within the constraints of the league’s rules and the officials’ perceptions.
Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo Sports
The bus bringing the New Orleans Hornets out of Game 6, out of angst and anger, grumbled near the back of the AT&T Center. Before climbing the steps, Byron Scott tugged out his iPod’s ear piece and considered the possibility that Robert Horry had turned into Cheap Shot Bob again.
The old man of these San Antonio Spurs had delivered a dubious blow to the bad back of the Hornets’ David West, and the coolest, calmest coach in the NBA was seething through that stoic disposition.
“I’m not real OK with it,” Scott told Yahoo! Sports. “But if I didn’t know Robert on a personal level, I’d say that was a dirty shot. Yeah, if I didn’t know him the way I know him, I’d say it was a cheap shot.”
Yes, he always liked Horry, but no one could convince Scott that West wasn’t a victim of a desperate shot by a desperate champion. The Hornets had been destroyed 99-80 in Game 6 on Thursday night, and still Scott and his players seethed over the blindsided screen Horry had leveled on West and his bad back.
Robert Horry is even more painful to watch. I grew up watching the Rockets; they were the first team I followed intently in the playoffs during their championship run. Watching Horry knock down big threes used to send me into, pardon the expression, paroxysms of joy. He is one of the best clutch players in the history of the NBA. And now, he’s nothing but a cheap shot artist. Spurs blogs constantly rail on Horry’s defensive liabilities. He’s got little lift on his three-point shot and he often mistimes rebounds because he’s trying to muster the energy to jump. He has very little to contribute on the basketball end at this point. So what does he do? The only thing he can. Cheap shot important players for the other team.
Yes, West was jumping back. And yes, you have a right to defend players in the lane. But don’t try and tell me that Horry didn’t know what he was doing. You have a player with a back injury, and you just “happen” to nail him directly in his back? If you watch the clip, you’re going to notice that not only does Horry go into his back, but he goes up into him. He dips down, just slightly, and puts the elbow into him, up. He knew what he was doing, and he did what he wanted.
There’s more but I’m too lazy to post it here. Just google the words Cheap Shot, Robert Horry and David West and you’ll find it.
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Brilliant. Just…brilliant.
I couldn’t agree with you more.
Amen, the Spurs perfectly put on the appearance of being altar boys who play team ball while effectively employing all sorts of under the table tactics.
West would have never bumped into the pick of Horry had Robert not moved into his back. Plus there was no need for Horry to move as Manu had passed on the drive and lobbed it over to Kurt Thomas. And to hear the Spurs fans chanting Horry Horry after he obviously took down the other teams best post player is totally sick. Bloodying somebodies nose is one thing, but taking out a guys back or knee, an injury that could end a career is totally unjustifiable, even for “play-off” basketball.
Kidding. Thanks for linking HooPh in your blog too. :D
@Mapster: Oh yes. That move could’ve ended or affected DW’s career for chrissakes.
What a bunch of crybabies. Its playoff basketball, get over it.
I can understand if David West was having a tremendous game and was going for a shot and he fouls him hard to break his rhythm but that foul was away from the ball.. now I don’t know if you ever experienced playing organized basketball before but, like what I said..
If you’re giving a blind screen, you aren’t supposed to move.. and Robert Horry knows that. Robert knows what he’s doing and he knows David West’s back is hurt. Now what part of that entry did you miss and I’ll gladly explain it to you.
this is precisely what i hate: people think that dirty play is a sign of one’s manhood. play hard, play tough, but never play dirty. The dirtier you play, the less honor you can take home and a lesser man you are.
I am reading nothing but ignorance here. I have read about those that have played basketball and from those who only watch it. I have read from those that do not like the Spurs and those that do.
I have done all of that and have a bad back. I know first hand not to go skiing or bungee jumping or over excert myself when my back is injured.
If David West wanted to be in the game with a bad back as shown by his wincing every time down the court then So Sorry CHARLIE, that is why he gets paid the big bucks. A missed step or anything else can collapse him to the floor. Byron Scott should have pulled him when he pulled Chris Paul, down by 21 points, 10 minutes left in the game, Tim Duncan pulled, Tony Parker pulled, Obierto pulled and bench trash minute players put in the game which is a blow out. If all you N.O. fans want to complain then do it to the coach for not having the know with all to pull his injured player off the court before anything else happens. He was on the verge of fouling out anyway would not have done him no good to be in playing. The Spurs Pulled David Robinson out of almost a whole series in 98 because of a bad back and we lost but we had him back good and healthy to play in 99. Byron Scott did not think of his franchise player as does Greg Popovitch or any other team coach would. Get over it! He should not have been in the game what so ever. But the want to win “NOW” was bigger then the want to have him in the game next season. Robert Horry had a split second to post up that blind pic, he kept his legs straight and his hands down, sure he leaned in but there isn’t a one of you so called, PLAY GROUND players that wouldn’t of leaned in either. he was set to take a charge. If anything, had Horry been slammed to the ground by West in that solid defensive position they would have called West with the foul. Horry wasn’t at all trying to do any more then damn the whole NBA is doing and damn sure didn’t calculate ending Wests carrer because he has a bad back. I don’t think there is anybody on any team that is going to favour another players injury if he is out on the floor… Excuse Horry for not patting West on his ass and letting him know “Watch out West, I don’t want you to aggravate an injury, that you shouldn’t be out on the floor with”
Shame on all of you, put the blame where the blame should be and that is on West and his Coach Byron Scott for not haveing the forsight to see his limited abilities on the court with such a bad back.
Second: If you’re really that desperate to prove me wrong, why don’t you answer my questions that I pointed out in that entry.
Third: I agree with you that David West should’ve been pulled out.
Fourth: If Robert Horry was setting a back pick, why would he move, he clearly saw David West was coming right at him and if my coach in HS and now in College taught me right, he shouldn’t have moved and waited for West to crash into him.
Fifth: I am more than a Play Ground Player, I have played for four years in High school, represented QC in numerous divisional leagues and if God would allow it, I could be on my way to my first ever UAAP stint this year.
While I respect the points you have pointed out, I would like to hear your take on the questions given above.
Yes Scott should have pulled West out of the game, i never liked Scott. Even when he was in jersey.
Still does not excuse dirty play. Manu had lobbed the pass over to KT, no need for a pick for a guy still on the perimeter who had lobbed the ball into the post. Precisely why West jumped up to try to deflect/intercept the ball. Horry moved into/leaned into him as you acceded to but for me and probably a whole lot of other people, Horry really didn’t need to. Bad back or no bad back, on Horry’s part, was that a “clean” play? I understand blind side picks are legit in any game, play-off or otherwise, but in that instance, no need to set the alleged legit blind side pick when the guy you’re supposedly screening for is 3 feet away without the ball.
Im not a Hornets fan, Im for the Spurs to win this series.
well, i guess basketball objectivity’s pretty much an oxymoron here.
first off i’m from new orleans and i love my hornets
but you remember when parker got hit in the back by a blind pick and yes the guy leaned forward just like horry
but i didn’t see any articles or whining about that
it was a clean play period if it wasn’t there would have been an ejection or he would have been suspended
let them play and may the best team win…
Again..
1) If it was such a clean play, why did a veteran like Robert Horry movedwhile setting a backscreen? Whilst all he needed to do was wait for West to crash into him?
2) Can anybody tell me Robert Horry’s intentions of setting the back screen? I mean, Ginobili did threw the lob to KT right?
Answers would be much appreciated.
As for the Parker - Chandler thing, I never saw it.
I will write a follow up entry regarding this topic as soon as I get some sleep
You can’t move when setting a pick, blindside or otherwise, in the play-offs or the regular season. If you do you usually get whistled for an infraction. So at the very least Horry got called for a moving screen.
Nobody can tell us Horry’s intention for setting the alleged blind side pick except for Robert Horry.
As for the Parker inccident, maybe nobody’s talking about it because the scenario mentioned was totally different from the Horry case.
Enjoy the game!
i might be wrong here but i’ll try answering your questins anyway:
Q1: i might be wrong but i think horry’s establishing inertia to be able to take someone else’s momentum coming down on him. you might want to “research” the weight of both persons involved and i think that difference is not that much.
Q2: looks like he’s fighting off for space. then again i might be wrong.
“As for the Parker - Chandler thing, I never saw it.”
- wow… yet you spend a great deal of space to write about something similar replete with bias against the “boring” guys in black because a hornet ends up on the receiving end. i rest my case.
On your first point: Robert Horry, in his career has been known for doing the dirty work (Taking Charges, defending players, setting screens.. no pun intended) he knows how to get it done.. he has taken charges from all different players who’s even larger than him (Shaq when he was in Houston, Vlade Divac and Arvydas Sabonis when he was in LA etc) so I really doubt that he moved to take David West’s crashing weight on him. Besides, if Horry didn’t move.. the impact of the play would’ve been less, I don’t even think they would collide if Horry stayed put. Point is, Horry moved when he shouldn’t have moved, some might think that I’m writing this because of my own personal bias against San Antonio yeah, and I’ll admit it, I don’t like watching them play (except for Manu of course) but the fact that it was so uncharasteristic for Robert Horry to move in that kind of situation makes me think that there was this malicious intent that occured in that play.
On your 2nd point: Space for what exactly?
wow… yet you spend a great deal of space to write about something similar replete with bias against the “boring” guys in black because a hornet ends up on the receiving end. i rest my case.
Again, although it was the same hard foul as some of you are saying (Although I really never saw it) I think the difference between the two plays is that A) West is coming off a back injury, B) West never returned in the game after the incident C) Everyone in the internet is talking about it.
Now here’s a question, I really need your answer on this.. if I wrote this entry out of my hate on the boring guys in black and because of my personal bias towards them.. why do you think there are 20 more bloggers and professional sports writers who feels the same as I do and wrote the same exact sentiments as this entry? Do you really think that I wrote this entry to take a shot at the team I really don’t like or maybe, just maybe, after all, there are hundreds of bloggers writing about this, I wrote this blog entry because something significant happened to that play and it needs to be sorted out, play by play. What do you think? Maybe those 25 other bloggers and pro writers hates the Spurs too huh?
i would’ve been more than willing to let it rest where i left it but since you really need my take then i’m going to have to dissect your last comment.
on your response to no. 1, i love the idea of you taking the time to write at length of Horry’s past battles when you didn’t even stop to realize that that was in the past or simply put, he’s plainly old. hence his strength was not how it used to be. i thought everyone knew that.
and don’t even get started (again?) on the he-shouldn’t-have-moved reasoning because it has already been properly assessed by a foul. trying to milk it further is just outright bias already. more on that later.
on your question for no. 2, don’t ask me man! you’re the one who wrote in the original entry of how Manu was trying “to throw a lob pass to Thomas who had good position on the inside.” i just honestly thought anyone “who knows how to play basketball” knows that space is such a premium down low. i guess i assume too much huh?
on your “wow-yet-you-spend-a-great-deal” response, just a correction before anything else. i never wrote anything about your hatred for the “boring” guys in black. i wrote about your bias. those are two different things so if i were you i’d read the comments many times before i even touch the keyboard to comment. as it is, you have a strawman there.
for example, points A, B and C serves nothing but to prove your bias against SA. i hope you do realize (as in really, really realize since i saw a comment there wherein you agreed that Byron Scott should’ve pulled out West when they were down big,) that NO’s coach does share a responsibility with what happened with his player who had a fragile back. more importantly, those points imply that injured players should be given special treatment when they insist on playing the contact sport. if that isn’t at all biased then all your other comments there must be axioms.
and please don’t start with me on the “everyone-blogs-about-it-so-they-must-be-pointing-out-something-worth-positng-too.” it’s nothing more than a convenient bandwagon for relativistic reasoning really. if there’s anything the sensible should notice, it’s that the NBA via Stu Jackson uncharacteristically looked at the play again and ruled out anything the angry mob of conspiracy theorists were insinuating. that and the fact that Scott was in stride with it makes what happened a non-issue.
those are facts as interpreted by people who actually have something to lose by erring through misjudgments. the NO coach has had his share of championships and knows what it takes to play at this level of the competition. i don’t know about you but in my book, i affix the “expert” tag with people such as those who have actual authority over something in question or someone who has actually earned the right to say “did-that-done-that” and not on couch quarterbacks.
finally you’re right. the series is over so the topic’s been rendered moot. let’s just be friends for the meantime. hahaha.
2nd point nalang sasagutin ko. I was wondering the same too, you were the one who commented that maybe Robert Horry was fighting for space, I don’t know what space he would fight for.. it seems that he’s clearly in control of the shaded area since West was coming from the outside.
But anyway, you’ve made your points and I made mine. As promised, I will now close this thread for good. :D :D :D